#28 "LIVE" AT CARNEGIE HALL by Andrae Crouch & the Disciples (1973)

"LIVE" AT CARNEGIE HALL
by Andrae Crouch & the Disciples
Light Records • LS 5602

"Ladies and gentlemen, Carnegie Hall will never again be the same..."

You can say that again.

The album actually begins with someone leading the audience in the "Jesus cheer" that was popular in the early 70s. The announcer with the deep baritone voice delivered the pronouncement above, and the crowd roared its approval. 

"And it's with Jesus' joy I present to you...Andrae Crouch & the Disciples!"

Usually, live albums sort of have a short shelf life. They're a bit like comedy albums in that regard - enjoyable and interesting at first, but less so with repeated listening. There are exceptions. And this is one of them.

Now, be sure to read all the way through this post because Andrae's drummer, Bill Maxwell, shares some information that may shock you. I know it did me. But first, let's dig into why this live album is still so beloved all these decades later.

I had a chance to talk with Maxwell and I asked him about the popularity of "Live" at Carnegie Hall. "Carnegie Hall was more indicative of what Andrae Crouch & the Disciples were, live, at that time," he said. "And his previous records were nothing like this one. You know, Keep On Singin' was kind of a very white-bread, up-with-people kind of record. And on Soulfully, he just hired a bunch of Motown arrangers and it was like an Andrae version of a Motown record - not really indicative of his music. But this was really him. And it was the first time that sound had been released. And things kind of broke for us at that point."

When Bill Maxwell says "that sound," he's not just talking about a style of music. He's talking about the anointing of the Holy Spirit...something Andrae called "having church." There was a focus on praising God and, yes, there was an anointing on Andrae's live performances. The Holy Spirit ministered powerfully through AC&D. I don't mind telling you that it happened again to me just this morning. I was listening to this album on my way to work for the first time in quite a while, and at a certain point the presence of the Lord was so strong in my car that I began to weep. I was enjoying it so much...but then I said to myself, "You've got to get yourself together, man! You've got to go into the office soon and everybody's going to wonder what's going on..." 

I shared this quote in my post about Live in London, but it's worth revisiting:

"Really, with Andrae, my favorite thing was the way he led worship when the Holy Spirit would show up. That's what separated Andrae from just being a band. There was an anointing on it. God would just show up. It happened for a long time, and when it was happening, we knew it. Because it was like, you're on stage and you could feel that something was happening. That's what made Andrae special. It was a gift that was on him."
-Bill Maxwell

 Andrae's former road and stage manager Steve Giglio said, "I can remember Andrae being on stage for three hours, and the power of the Holy Spirit was non-stop."

"This is not a concert tonight; we're havin' church!"

-Andrae

Most people have heard the story of how the Lord supernaturally granted Andrae the ability to play the piano. And then Crouch has also told about his Holy Spirit baptism in two different songs - Satisfied and Take A Little Time. But he went into a great degree of detail about that experience in his autobiography Through It All, written with Nina Ball and published in 1974. For more on that, go back and read our post on the album Soulfully.

 

Frankly, all this Holy Spirit stuff was new to some in Crouch's audiences. There's a reason he spent time joking about "the First Church of the Frigidaire." There was a reason that he said to the crowd, "If you come from the other side of the tracks, or if you know what goes on on the other side of the tracks..." 

Up until "Live" at Carnegie Hall, Andrae, although himself a product of the Church of God in Christ denomination - a primarily black denomination that was open to the gifts of the Holy Spirit - for whatever reason, played to mostly white audiences. Sometimes it would be a bunch of Jesus Movement hippies in Southern California. Such was the case the first time Alex MacDougall saw Andrae live. "A 1970 Jesus Music concert was loosely organized on a Huntington Beach high school football field, and the groups all shared a small stage," MacDougall recalled for a story in Worship Musician magazine in February of 2019. "The audience was white, and the Jesus Music played on stage very much resembled the singer/songwriter, country-rock sounds of the day. However, Andrae sounded nothing like that at all! He performed with such exuberance, joy, and confidence that it was contagious." 

So Andrae fit in just fine with the Jesus People...but often he would find himself singing to crowds of a more conservative nature. A Billy Graham Crusade, Robert Schuller's Crystal Cathedral, TBN...places like that. "Our audience was 90% white," Maxwell said. "Andrae would do somewhat relatable and conservative songs for the first part of every concert, and then when he felt the audience was comfortable with him, he'd switch into a black gospel expression." Oftentimes, this would be the first time that these audiences had ever been exposed to such a concert. 

Sure enough, Bill Maxwell said that the Carnegie Hall crowd was essentially an all-white audience. "But when everyone heard the finished product, it was the first album Andrae had done that got black people listening. I joined Andrae in the summer of 1972. Very few black people embraced his music at all, but after Carnegie Hall they did because there was an excitement to it, and that Pentecostal environment." Maxwell said that after "Live" at Carnegie Hall had been out a little while, the group played a concert in Detroit. There was a guy that attended that concert by the name of Marvin Winans. "Marvin came to the concert expecting a segregated hall," Maxwell said. "He arrived and went up to the balcony to sit where he thought he was supposed to sit, but instead found the balcony occupied by both blacks and whites. And this was in the mid-70s!" It was a time when both race and music caused deep divisions not just in the Church but in society at large. Maxwell said that Marvin Winans was surprised to find not only an integrated audience, but also an integrated band on stage. "Marvin said it was one of the most liberating moments of his life," Bill remembers. "I don't know anyone else besides Andrae that broke down those barriers." By the way, The Winans would record their very own Live at Carnegie Hall album in 1988. 

In 1977, Bill Maxwell was producing an album for Keith Green and ran into a bit of a time constraint. So Alex MacDougall was given the opportunity to hit the road with the Disciples as a fill-in drummer. "I was amazed at everyone, every race and every age group coming together as one during those concerts," MacDougall recalls. 

The album is full of hits: I Don't Know Why, I Didn't Think It Could Be, You Don't Know What You're Missing, Jesus is the Answer, It Won't Be Long. There's a rowdy rendition of Can't Nobody Do Me Like Jesus and Bili Thedford gives a hair-raising performance on the Dottie Rambo classic, He Looked Beyond My Fault. And Andrae drew on his abilities as a worship leader when he led the audience in that 70s worship chorus that had only one word in the lyrics...Alleluia. Or Hallelujah as Andrae called it. (I used to joke that Jerry Sinclair probably stayed up all night writing that one.) 

You may notice that I'm not dedicating much space to reprinting song lyrics...because, to be honest, most of them were very simple expressions... Jesus is the answer | for the world today | Above Him there's no other | Jesus is the way...It won't be long | 'til we'll be leavin' here | It won't be long | we'll be going Home...I don't know why Jesus loved me | I don't know why He cared | I don't know why He sacrificed His life | Oh but I'm glad, so glad He did...

Maybe the simplicity was the secret. Don't misunderstand - Andrae was a spectacularly successful songwriter. But his songs took root in our hearts not because of lyrical depth and complexity. Again, I believe it was because of the anointing of the Holy Spirit.

Bill Maxwell

Bill Maxwell has said that Andrae would often begin a song with the chorus (which, of course, is not typically done; you would normally start a song with the first verse). "He would start with the chorus and then repeat it once or twice before ever going to the verse," Maxwell said. "That way, the song imprinted in everyone's mind by the time the verse was sung. We used that template a lot during those years." He did it with Jesus is the Answer, It Won't Be Long, Soon and Very Soon, Take Me Back, and many others.

Historian Mark Allan Powell says "Live" at Carnegie Hall was the first live album to come out of the Jesus Movement and was one of the two or three best (with To The Bride by Barry McGuire and the 2nd Chapter of Acts being its biggest competition). Powell writes in his Encyclopedia of Contemporary Christian Music that this album "offers at least a glimpse of what (besides great songs) made Andrae Crouch & the Disciples an international phenomenon: electrifying live performances. The fact is - as a few non-Christian rock fans discovered - in the early 70s, Crouch and company were on a short list with The Who and the Rolling Stones for providing one of the best concert experiences to be had. Andrae called it 'having church,' and you couldn't get out without hearing a lot of preaching-to-the-beat music." In fact, there's an entire track on this album that's simply titled Andrae Preaching. Not to belabor the point, but this record seriously served as an introduction to "black church" for so many white Christians in America and even around the world. Powell says the album also received a good bit of crossover attention in secular R&B/pop radio.

"I want the ushers just to close the doors; we're gonna be here for a few more minutes."

-Andrae

In the book Through It All, Crouch said, "The hardest thing about always being on the go is leaving your home, your local community, the relatives and friends you see every day to suddenly open up your life to everybody all over the world. You become involved with more and more people and there is so much heartache it can break you. I had to learn to rely totally on the Lord. Totally."

The one and only time I ever saw Andrae Crouch & the Disciples live was under a large pavilion at Six Flags Over Georgia in Atlanta, around 1976. The Pat Terry Group opened the concert. I was young and it was a long time ago, so I'm afraid I don't remember many details from that event. I do remember Pat, Sonny and Randy sitting on their stools, playing and singing. And I just remember the buzz...the overall excitement and anticipation of what seemed to me like a very large crowd, gathered to see and hear Andrae and his group.

"Sometimes when we arrive to do a concert it seems to us as if the people believe that since they paid their money, now we are to pour out to them," Andrae told Nina Ball in his 1974 autobiography. "That attitude becomes so demanding that sometimes I ask them to pray for us before we sing. But once they are in the Spirit with us, they minister to us and us to them and all of us to the Lord. Then the body is functioning as a body, in unison, and there is no way a non-Christian can leave untouched. We can always sense if people have come to be fed, entertained, or just to ridicule us and ask, 'Who are these people?' We don't profess to be anybody or anything but sinners saved by the grace of God whom He has chosen to do a work."

Sandra Crouch sang a memorable solo on Jesus Is The Answer

Here's a funny life-on-the-road story from the book: "I remember one summer when the Disciples sang in a park in Nebraska. Was it ever hot! Many people were wearing shorts, muumuus, and Levi's, but there were a number of church people in black suits, hats and ties, who were sitting on blankets. Sandra had never worn anything but a dress to sing in up until that time, but I had told her to buy some culottes to wear because we would be singing on the back of a flatbed truck and climbing up and down. After the concert, one of the brothers wearing black suits came up to Sandra. 'You all are an anointed group but, sistah, you got to come out of them britches!' Sandra put her hands on her hips, looked at him and asked, 'Right here?' I ended that conversation with, 'God bless you, good to have you here today.'"  

Andrae's parents: Rev. Benjamin & Catherine Crouch

Andrae said he never forgot the words of his pastor father, spoken when he first started touring: "Son, God is going to use you. As you travel, your name may be in lights but if you don't care about people, if you get on stage and don't feel for those people, don't have a burden, a compassion to win them at any cost, then is the time to come home."

Andrae's crisp and energetic piano playing certainly stands out on this album. I was a kid just learning to play when this record came out, and I was influenced by Andrae's playing probably more than anyone else. I'm nowhere near in his league, but I can remember imitating his fills when I was in my early teens...and I still do. 

The liner notes on the back of the album say that 1,500 people jammed the Baptist church across the street because they couldn't get in. It says, "The Disciples played in the church first and then ran back to the famed Carnegie Hall where thousands of people were anxiously waiting to praise Jesus." It goes on to make a point that "this album is not a slick or watered-down album. It is rough and honest." Yeah, to be blunt, despite the fact that this record is a cultural touchstone for the Jesus Movement and despite the anointing that's obviously on it...well, I'm just going to say it. There's some sloppiness on this album where it just doesn't sound like the rhythm section is firing on all cylinders. 

Turns out there's a good explanation for that.

Bill Maxwell

Here's the part that's going to blow your mind. You might want to sit down. Or at least grab something to steady yourself.

Telephone interview | June 2017

Bill Maxwell: "Live" at Carnegie Hall was recorded in February or March of 1972 and what most people don't know, and I don't mind saying, is that I wasn't there.

Me: Wait...what?! You're in the credits. On the album cover. You played drums, right?

Bill: The whole album was overdubbed.

Me: You're kidding.

Bill: Nope. They recorded the concert and Andrae wasn't happy with his band. He had a band of amateur musicians. And when everyone heard the finished product...

Me: So...wait...what are you saying?

Bill: Andrae had the tapes and he told the record company that he didn't like it. He didn't like the band, didn't like the way the thing sounded. The only thing he liked was the audience and his own performance. And so he said he'd like to try to work on it and fix things. And the record company was just sure that he was going to mess it up. And they wouldn't give him the masters, but they made him a copy of the masters. 

As you might imagine, as I'm hearing Bill say these things over the phone, my mind is racing. I mean, it's common for a live album to have an overdub here, maybe fix a little something over there...but this was taking overdubs to a whole other level. Bill continued, and got a little technical with his explanation of how Andrae saved the Carnegie Hall album.

Bill: The piano was recorded with a pickup, which is not a microphone, so it just picked up the sound of the strings in close proximity and it didn't have much leaking. So you didn't hear drums or vocals in it, and his vocal mic was very clean, so we essentially replaced everything. Hadley Hockensmith replaced the bass and the guitars. I replaced the drums - even though sometimes the drummer messed up and the beat got kind of flubbed around, I just had to go with it and try to match it. Harlan Rogers overdubbed the organ and then they replaced all the background vocals.

Me: But what about the crowd noise?

Bill: The crowd was the crowd. Now, he couldn't bring it up too much in the mix if the band was in it, so it had to be where it wouldn't expose the fact that it was a different band playing. But all of those responses, it was all from that crowd. That was the main thing - the only thing Andrae overdubbed was "Good night and God bless you!" That was done after the fact and that applause was brought in there at the end, obviously. But pretty much, that's what the crowd did. They were wild and loud. That was them.

Wow. Unbelievable. So I guess maybe that's why the word "Live" is in quote marks on the album cover? I had never noticed that before.

Just to be clear, for the record..."So you, Fletch Wiley, Hadley Hockensmith and Harlan Rogers, none of you were actually at the concert?"

Bill smiled and said, "No. But people swear they saw me there."

 

 

Fun Facts:

• There have been at least 17 albums that have been titled Live at Carnegie Hall, including records by Bob Dylan, Jethro Tull, Liza Minelli, Stevie Ray Vaughn, comic Ray Romano and Billy Joel.

• There have been at least 92 albums, total, recorded at the prestigious theatre in New York City. They include projects by Benny Goodman, Frank Zappa, Buck Owens, Dizzy Gillespie, The Who, Chicago, Groucho Marx, Glenn Miller, Greg Allman, Miles Davis, Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennett, and Paul Simon (whose album Rhymin' Simon includes Jessy Dixon singing (and some woman totally over-singing) Andrae's song, Jesus is the Answer).